The real way to land an internship that opens doors

[00:00:07] Courtney: What are some of the biggest myths that we want to debunk for students about applying to internships?

Tom: A big myth with getting an internship is you can do it in a couple hours a week by applying for a few online jobs, and that's just not true. In reality, getting a high quality internship is in many respects, more difficult than even getting a full-time job.

There's way less opportunities for internships than there are full-time positions. Oftentimes, internships are not listed. When they are listed oftentimes the requirements or the profiles aren't exactly what the employer has in mind.

In reality, students that end up with high quality internships usually end up spending a ton of time, a ton of energy.

And what I always suggest is thinking of it like another class.

So you might say on average five to seven hours a week, but also the consistency– and think about it as something that you don't necessarily need to work on every day, but you definitely need to work on every week over the course of a semester and certainly in the preceding few months when you are trying to secure that internship.

[00:01:15] Courtney: What strategy would you recommend someone takes to get an internship? And here we're especially talking about the internships between junior year and senior year of college.

Tom: There's a big myth that you can get a high quality internship by using a job board like LinkedIn or Handshake, and I would say that's categorically false.

To be clear, it's true that at some point they're useful to get information and you may ultimately need to apply through them, but in reality, an unsponsored request to a company for a high quality internship through a job board has almost no chance of even being seen by a human, let alone leading to an internship or job.

So in general, I think, uh, just to simplify it, I would start with build a team, develop a strategy. Start to engage and work that strategy–

[00:02:08] Courtney: Let's dig into that first one a little bit more. So, building your team, why is it important to have a team and who is gonna be on that team?

Who should you look to be on your side as you're gearing up to apply to internships?

Tom: Almost no one in the world is able to land, especially a high quality internship without the support, involvement, input, and guidance of of other people.

And those people includes, you know, people that are close to you, that know about the field that you're trying to get an internship in.

It means leveraging professors and people you may not be that close to, but may have helpful insight or connections.

And it means getting the support of peers or near peers, people that are classmates or friends or people that maybe you don't know as well, but they are a couple grades ahead of you and you have gone through it before.

[00:02:54] Courtney: How would you suggest initiating conversations around internships with these two, with these two types of people?

[00:03:00] Tom: Well, I, I'd say the general rule about interacting with anyone in the course of seeking an internship, and this is really true just professionally in life is be clear about how they can help you, and to be thoughtful about how to use their time.

Most people that you ask for help will wanna be helpful. The thing I mainly want to know is first and foremost, can I be helpful? Is this person gonna ask me to do something that I'm actually not gonna be, you know, helpful on? Is it gonna be a waste of their time and is it gonna be a waste of my time? The second thing I wanna know is how much time, right?

The third thing I want to know though is, hey, is this young adult serious?

Are they gonna, are they gonna take my time and respect it seriously? Are they gonna actually use my input? Are they gonna be thoughtful about the questions that they have? Are they gonna do their end of their end of the bargain?

[00:03:50] Courtney: If you really have no idea what you're doing and you don't know how to approach it, then it may be appropriate to say. "Hey, I know I need to get an internship. I've never done it. And could you give me some guidance or advice about how to even go about it?"

Tom: Right. So open-ended questions being vulnerable, that can be totally fine. But the two worst questions I find are some version of, "Can you help me get an internship or, something that's even more specific, "Hey, can you help me get a job at blank?"

That, that's one of the big myths about relationships and connections to places.

Hey, I worked at McKinsey. "Can you get me a job at McKinsey?" No. No. I can't get you a job at McKinsey, and somebody that works at Le Bonheur in Memphis can't get you a job or an internship at Le Bonheur. Now, if somebody says, can you help me put myself in the best position to get an internship at McKinsey or at Backrs or at Le Bonheur or wherever?

That's a very good question. But not, "Hey, can you just, can you just get me a job somewhere?"

So being, again, being very clear about this person, being very clear about the kind of help you wanna get from this person, and then also being clear about where you are in the internship process, which actually brings me to the second part of the plan that you outlined in the strategy. So let's say you have your team.

Courtney: Now, how do you go about building a strategy for applying to internships that bumps your chances up from zero to something?

[00:05:28] Tom: Yeah, I think there's two parts of the strategy sheet.

One is where you're targeting for the internship, what kind of position, et cetera. Ultimately I suggest that you anchor on employers. So a lot of times people will anchor on a position, they will look for a specific internship. That's a bad idea for at least three reasons:

One, at least half the internships that exist in the world are not posted anywhere.

Two, from a resume standpoint, the employer is more important than the job.

And three, oftentimes, that employer will have different positions that might be a better fit for you than, the one that you happen to see on the job board.

The big part of the strategy is. Who are those employers? And the key thing to think about there are career paths. So am I trying to find an internship in marketing, in finance, in mechanical engineering, in physical therapy, right? So you have to have some sense of the career path. And then the second I think very important is geography.

So are you trying to find an internship in the Denver area, the Boston area, or do you not really care? Are you okay with a remote internship or are you really prioritizing in person?

The correct answer there is in person, by the way, but in any event, you need to know at least some sense of what you are, you're trying to target, and then you need to come up with a list of employers.

That's part one of the strategy. The second part of the strategy is calibration.

And in reality, some internships, some employers are dramatically more selective and competitive than others. And you need to decide what level, in your respective field, you're targeting.

And you want to make sure that your background, your grades, your leadership profile, your experiences are somewhat congruent with the internships you're trying to target, or you're gonna end up wasting a huge amount of time and energy.

[00:07:23] Courtney: In a lot of senses, it sounds like applying for internships starts way before you actually apply to internships. To that end, my question is: How much should the goal of getting an internship be on a student's mind as they begin college or even in high school?

[00:07:40] Tom: Yeah. So at Backrs, we have a concept called Career Tracks that I think, permeates through high school and college, and at least, if we're talking about professional tracks, we just call them middle tier, upper tier, and top tier. I think that construct is useful the entire time you're a young adult.

And that's also, I think, a helpful way to think about internships because generally those employers, or the career paths at those employers will loosely align to one of those tracks. And just to say it, if you're, if you're aspiring to have an upper tier professional career, you're gonna wanna shoot for at least an upper tier professional internship, which means you need to understand the requirements to secure one of those internships in terms of your grades, your skills, your achievements, et cetera.

[00:08:31] Courtney: So let's say, you know, you've calibrated your profile, you've selected institutions. You're reasonably certain that your profile aligns with the people that these institutions are interested in hiring for internships. How do you get onto an employer's radar?

[00:08:47] Tom: My basic advice is to try to figure out any human being that you may have a connection to that has anything to do with that employer. You're basically trying to figure out, first, do I know anybody that works at this company?

Okay, you can use LinkedIn for that. Second is, does anybody that's close to me, my parents, my aunts and uncles, friends of friends, do they know anybody that works at this company? Third thing is, are there any alums of my university–all else equal, those people are gonna be more likely to respond to outreach from you, even if it's cold.

Many universities, especially business schools, but sometimes other colleges will have career fairs. That is a great place to go and make a face-to-face personal connection with at least somebody at the employer.

Why do you want a connection at one of these employers?

In most cases, connections can't get you a job. Maybe they can help you get an internship. But what they oftentimes can do is get you the opportunity for a human to actually review your resume and give you a shot at least being considered.

The vast majority of resumes, like 99%, are screened out by algorithms.

You're trying to at least learn a little bit about their recruiting process. You're trying to understand, are there internships available?

Are you a good fit? Do you have any chance of getting an internship? And can you establish a relationship with the people, the actual humans that are responsible for recruiting that position such that they will actually review your resume?

[00:10:18] Courtney: And what are the kinds of questions that you're going to be asking these people?

[00:10:22] Tom: I think the safest way is always to ask for guidance. So you're, you're talking to Debbie, who's an executive at the employer.

The safest thing is, "Debbie, I am, I'm trying to get an internship here. Do you have any advice or guidance?"

The second thing that I think is always fair to ask is,

"Is there anyone in recruiting or HR that you could connect me with so that I'd have an opportunity to introduce myself and share that I'm interested in pursuing an internship?" Right? So Debbie is not going to quote unquote "get you the internship," but Debbie can give you advice and maybe, Debbie can connect you with a person that you can make a connection with. If you don't know the person, they're a second or third order connection, it's even more important, to be clear about what you are, are trying to learn or do. So let's say this is a near peer.

Let's say this is, you know, you're a junior in college, you have found an alum of your same college. The question to me is, " Hey, I'm Tom. I'm reaching out. I know we don't know each other, but I also went to CU Boulder, or I went to Middle Tennessee State, and I'm really interested in an internship here. I'm wondering if you could spend 15 minutes with me. I had two questions. You know, what's been your overall experience at, do you enjoy it?

And two, is there a person or is there some guidance you can give me, given that you've been successful in getting an internship there or a job there? Can you give me any practical guidance for how I might increase my odds?"

[00:11:46] Ultimately you're trying to get to the, the person that's actually gonna give you the internship.

And when you do get the chance to talk to them, you wanna be prepared as to what you wanna say. And in that situation, it is something along the lines of: introducing yourself. "Hey, I'm Tom. Um, I'm really interested in working at your company, hospital, et cetera, because of X, Y, and Z.

And I'd really appreciate it if you would consider my application."

Importantly, I will point out process-wise, I generally advise people not to apply either to online applications, LinkedIn, Handshake until you've had a chance to talk to someone and get their guidance so that they physically, either have a physical copy of a resume, I know that sounds old school, or they've at least had the face-to-face interaction.

And the reason it's important to ask is oftentimes there are multiple ways to apply.

If you go ahead and apply and the algorithm kicks you out, it sometimes makes it harder for a hiring manager that may be impressed with your presentation of yourself. You may have said something that intrigued them, and you just don't wanna make it harder for them to give you that shot.

[00:12:58] Courtney: Alright. What should you do if you can't land a formal internship? Is all lost?

[00:13:03] Tom: If you don't land a formal internship, all is not lost. That happens to, many, many folks, maybe even most. The most important thing is to do something useful and productive. It's important to remember internships, even that word is a particular flavor of professional experience.

If you're objective for an internship is primarily to help you secure a good job. When you graduate or get into a competitive, or selective graduate school program, then what's gonna be most important is actually something that conveys achievement.

Maybe it's something totally different, like starting a business or, doing an international experience.

You want something that's gonna be as impressive as possible. It's not just gonna sound impressive, it's going to be impressive.

And there's, an almost unlimited number of those opportunities that you could pursue.

[00:13:53] Courtney: Amazing. Thank you so much, Tom. I really appreciate you taking the time to share all of this insight. I think this is really helpful for students to kind of break down this super complex process of applying to internships into clear steps, and to avoid the trap of just sending out thousands of applications through a job board.

So I appreciate it. Thank you.

[00:14:14] Tom: Thank you, Courtney.